Deep Dive #5 - Building the Mine of the Future

00:00:00: Hello and welcome to another episode of Deep Dive into Applied Science.

00:00:09: Today we have a very special guest, because this time we go deep down for a topic.

00:00:17: But before you hear more, you will hear the introduction of our guest.

00:00:22: Nice, thank you.

00:00:24: Thank you for having me and thank you for the invitation.

00:00:28: So, I am now at the Sena Nayeke, actually my Sri Lankan full name is really long and

00:00:34: it is Sena Nayeke, Maharachilage, now the Pasan Bandar Sena Nayeke.

00:00:41: But in Germany I use only now the Sena Nayeke, because it's the most easiest and convenient.

00:00:46: That's probably the longest name we've had on here.

00:00:50: So anyway, as I told, I am originally from Sri Lanka and I came to Germany in 2017 for

00:00:57: my Masters.

00:00:59: So in Sri Lanka I did my bachelor's as a mineral resources and technology student and

00:01:06: I specialized in mineral processing technology.

00:01:10: And it is basically followed by geology, mining and then of course I specialized in mineral

00:01:17: processing technology.

00:01:19: So it's a four year special degree, my bachelor's.

00:01:25: And then I worked in the petroleum sector, upstream petroleum sector, where the exploration

00:01:32: mining of petroleum resources happened.

00:01:35: And I was a student, I was like an intern in the upstream petroleum sector where the

00:01:42: upstream petroleum activities were happened in Sri Lanka, yes.

00:01:47: And I was assigned to the petroleum resource development sector at a rate.

00:01:53: And I was there for like four months as an intern of course.

00:01:57: And at that time, that is the time I understood about the importance of the energy market.

00:02:05: And I was of course in the upstream sector where the exploration and everything happens.

00:02:11: And at that time I realized petroleum resources are of course there.

00:02:15: For the next, I would believe for the next 500 years there will be no issue in the petroleum

00:02:20: sector.

00:02:21: It's not that long actually.

00:02:24: Yeah, not that long.

00:02:25: But if we consider the currently happening things like the renewable energies and everything.

00:02:30: So we can stretch talk to like another 100 years.

00:02:33: Nevertheless, my point was that I realized that even though if we have enough petroleum

00:02:39: resources, that is not compatible with the environment because we are having the discussion

00:02:45: about climate change and these things.

00:02:47: So that's the time I got to know about to this sector.

00:02:50: So then I wanted to move into the energy part of the mining and mineral processing sector

00:02:56: because it was a huge topic at that time, even in Sri Lanka.

00:03:00: At that time also, it's still now in that kind of area of that part of the world, the

00:03:06: climate actions are not that much significant.

00:03:10: So we don't do that much activities regarding the emissions, carbon management, you know,

00:03:17: like climate taxes and these things are not that much significant or I would say none

00:03:22: at all.

00:03:24: So I wanted to open a discussion or a dialogue to myself to see what are the possibilities

00:03:32: of this sector, where we can look into the energy aspects, how we can transform this

00:03:40: kind of transition of this energy part of the mining and mineral processing sector.

00:03:46: So that's the point where I was looking some degree programs to pursue my higher education

00:03:55: and then I found the Umwel campus Birkenfeld and the degree program, the masters program,

00:04:03: which I found as the international material flow management.

00:04:06: So it is about promoting the circular economy concepts.

00:04:10: But the tool what we are using is material flow management and material flow analysis.

00:04:16: So so then I applied for my masters, I got a scholarship and then I moved to Germany

00:04:23: in 2017.

00:04:25: And during the studies, I was able to engage not only for the energy and renewable aspects,

00:04:34: but also about the waste water treatment, you know, like the upcycling recycling and

00:04:40: these kind of most important aspects in the circular economy under the word word of circular

00:04:46: economy.

00:04:47: Just one question.

00:04:51: You already mentioned you studied in Sri Lanka.

00:04:54: Yes.

00:04:55: You finished your bachelor's degree in Sri Lanka and for a master's you went to Birkenfeld.

00:04:59: How was the transitioning process from Sri Lanka to Birkenfeld?

00:05:04: It was quite a challenge, you know, because living like the the family and the social

00:05:12: aspect is one part.

00:05:13: And then of course, this is a new chapter for me, the education part, because I was

00:05:17: looking a professional endeavor.

00:05:20: I mean, I wanted to go for this field.

00:05:23: I came from geology mining and then mineral processing, yes.

00:05:27: And then moved to a energy transition and this kind of aspect, it was a new topic to

00:05:32: me.

00:05:33: I learned a lot of things.

00:05:34: So I was looking to cover an academic gap to reach my professional career.

00:05:41: So I wanted to see the practical things, the exposure, you know, so that's how I decided

00:05:47: to come to Germany because if you come here, you can see around there are a lot of wind

00:05:51: turbines, solar PV and everything's are there.

00:05:54: So it is a place where I can see and touch these things because I'm from applied science

00:06:00: field because my initial degree also in the applied science stream.

00:06:04: So we go to the field, we touch field, you know, mining, mineral processing, these are

00:06:08: tangible subjects, tangible fields.

00:06:13: So that's that was the challenge for me.

00:06:16: So I have to come to another country.

00:06:18: I don't speak the language now little bit okay.

00:06:20: But at that time, the German, well, to be fair, German is a very hard language.

00:06:25: So that was quite a challenge.

00:06:27: But at that time when I moved to Birkenfeld in 2017, there was only one Sri Lankan living

00:06:34: in that part.

00:06:36: And I got to know him little before, but it was quite a new experience to me.

00:06:43: But I was able to adapt fast and the people in the campus, my professors, administration

00:06:51: staff, they were like still they're like my family, they helped me a lot.

00:06:55: So that this transition was around one month, two months, then I was quite actually quite

00:07:01: fast.

00:07:02: Yeah, exactly.

00:07:03: Especially for another country.

00:07:04: Yeah.

00:07:05: And it was because I was enjoying the things that I was doing in my studies.

00:07:11: And these are the things exactly I wanted to cover because as I told, I wanted to cover

00:07:14: a professional gap from my academic requirements.

00:07:19: So in that part, I was enjoying my studies.

00:07:25: So I had a lot of friends from Germany and also from international communities like Vietnamese,

00:07:33: Taiwanese, Ghanians and all parts of the world.

00:07:37: So it was quite a good experience.

00:07:39: So the time went fast.

00:07:41: And then, yeah, and in 2018, my wife also came to Germany.

00:07:48: We got married in 2018.

00:07:50: And then we moved to Bergenfeld together.

00:07:52: So then it was quite sounds like almost a perfect transition.

00:07:59: And you finished your master's degree at Bergenfeld.

00:08:02: Yes.

00:08:03: And you also stayed there for your PhD?

00:08:06: Actually the PhD that what we are going to discuss further, it's actually my own topic.

00:08:14: It is not I'm staying in Bergenfeld not only because of my PhD.

00:08:19: I'm also working as a project manager for the Institute for Applied Material Pro-Management.

00:08:25: I work in the international department.

00:08:27: So PhD and my job both came together.

00:08:31: So in that case, it was a perfect combination.

00:08:35: And my second supervisor is also from Umber Campus Bergenfeld.

00:08:39: So that's the reason I'm staying there mostly.

00:08:43: And the PhD, of course, is my own topic, as I mentioned.

00:08:47: And I was able to do it from wherever I want.

00:08:50: But since it is already aligned with my job related activities, so it is a perfect combination.

00:08:58: So yeah.

00:08:59: So before we dive deeper, can you describe your PhD project in just one sentence if that's

00:09:06: even possible?

00:09:07: It's it's a little hard, but I would say I'm trying to make the mining and mineral processing

00:09:14: sector more sustainable.

00:09:17: Yeah.

00:09:18: And how do you want to achieve this?

00:09:22: Yeah, it's it's a very I would say it's a very hard topic or a topic to discuss because

00:09:31: in my topic, what I'm trying to do mainly in the direction of energy, efficiency and

00:09:38: renewable energy.

00:09:40: So when it comes to not only for mining or mineral processing, but also for any other

00:09:46: industries, it is not the only concern.

00:09:48: There are much more things attached, financial, social, environmental and technical.

00:09:54: And in mining and mineral processing, the energy plays a huge role.

00:10:01: And that's why I think from my aspect coming from the mineral processing sector, geology,

00:10:10: mining and this sector.

00:10:11: And after I finish my masters in the material flow management, so we are trying to look

00:10:18: into the same system in a different angle.

00:10:22: So if you ask, yes, I moved away from the mining and mineral processing to pursue this

00:10:28: new chapter in the same sector.

00:10:30: So if you ask, I am not an active mining engineer nor active mineral processing engineer, but

00:10:36: I work with the industry.

00:10:37: So I know how the things are happening inside.

00:10:41: What are the challenges?

00:10:43: So I just kept in one part, I took one channel out, which is the energy and resources.

00:10:51: When it comes to water and these kind of things in the mining and mineral processing.

00:10:56: So when it comes to this part, yes, of course we have technical challenges, environmental

00:11:04: challenges, social and of course financial.

00:11:06: So I am talking about the environmental aspect, but only regarding to the energy and resource

00:11:12: efficiency.

00:11:13: And I'm dialing it down to emissions because it is one of the reference point or I would

00:11:20: say like a common understanding that we can relate it to any kind of industry.

00:11:27: When I hear the word mining, just the word of all, I immediately think of very harsh

00:11:33: working conditions, underground, dangerous work of all.

00:11:38: Is this still up to date or is this like an outdated picture I have in my head?

00:11:44: It's a yes and no question.

00:11:47: Yes in some countries still.

00:11:49: Yes.

00:11:50: For example, even if you go to Sri Lanka right now, there are really hard conditions in some

00:11:55: underground mines.

00:11:56: We don't have that much underground mines, but the things which are already existing,

00:12:00: even the smaller ones like gem mining, these are not that much into the proper safety standards.

00:12:08: But when it comes to some countries like Germany and the developed countries, yes, these safety

00:12:14: measures are taken care into a great deal.

00:12:18: For example, now the underground mining is not done by people going down.

00:12:25: So the people are on the top of the surface and they are operating ROVs like remotely

00:12:30: operated vehicles and most of the things are automated.

00:12:34: So people can work from the top and the machineries and everything's underground.

00:12:38: So that is not the only concern.

00:12:41: But you know when you are dealing with the ground, stones, big bulk of materials and

00:12:47: harsh conditions and also like heavy machinery and of course the safety is a concern and

00:12:54: there are still certain limits where you can't automate certain things that the people has

00:12:59: to go there.

00:13:00: For example, if you want to do a survey about the deposits underground, then you have to

00:13:07: be there physically and you have to do some drillings and excavations manually to take

00:13:13: samples and to see that.

00:13:15: So everything involves risk.

00:13:17: But it's still recognized as one of the dangerous or most critical jobs in the world.

00:13:25: And even of in the top surface mining or underground mining, still the level is a little different

00:13:31: of course but underground mining is still considered one of the most hard or dangerous

00:13:39: jobs in the world.

00:13:41: Not only the miners go down, you need mechanical engineers, geologists and all these people

00:13:48: are involved in one particular sector.

00:13:50: So it is still considered like that.

00:13:54: Let's take just a small step back because you already mentioned the emissions.

00:14:00: So I don't really know much about mining, so which well, let's say long time measures

00:14:06: can help to reduce emissions from the whole, well, let's say mining complex, how do you

00:14:13: do that?

00:14:14: It's the challenge because when I came up with the topic as well, my Dr. Fathers asked

00:14:20: like, what if this model is not going to work?

00:14:24: And if there's no significant reductions when we do these things like the long term effect

00:14:32: or the long term things that we should do to reduce the emissions in mineral and mining

00:14:38: sector.

00:14:39: It is really hard but as far as I believe, there are certain things that we can do because

00:14:47: in the future, I mean even now, the mining facility or a mining site should not be only

00:14:55: for extracting minerals.

00:14:56: It should run itself.

00:14:58: It should generate its own electricity or its own energy and it should recycle as much

00:15:04: as possible waste and all the materials that which low grade.

00:15:09: So there are hundreds of things that we should do but when it comes to the long term effect

00:15:16: or like the things that we should consider regarding the future that we need to electrify

00:15:21: the fleets like the vehicles and all the haulage mechanism should be electrified.

00:15:27: We need to recycle.

00:15:28: What about the groundwater?

00:15:29: Because when you are going down, we are interfering with the groundwater body, the aquifers.

00:15:35: We are disturbing that.

00:15:37: So then the water has to be pumped out and how to reclaim that, reclaiming the environment

00:15:43: because you know, when you are doing a mining, we are just destroying the current biosphere.

00:15:49: So how we can reclaim that during the process.

00:15:52: So these are the things that if you are talking about long term that what we should do right

00:15:57: now is to think at least about that and to take measures.

00:16:01: First step in my topic, I'm talking about the energy part.

00:16:05: So how we can electrify and the electricity should come from renewables.

00:16:09: Is it really possible?

00:16:11: From my experience, I know it is not 100% possible.

00:16:14: So what is the extent we can go?

00:16:16: What is the maximum threshold we can reach?

00:16:19: Do you think it will be possible in the future?

00:16:21: Yes, I believe so.

00:16:22: That's why I do this because if you ask the emissions, what we are talking, the greenhouse

00:16:29: gas emissions from a student having a background from physics, chemistry, and of course then

00:16:35: geology and mining.

00:16:37: I know as a fact that emissions are causing a problem in the current environment.

00:16:42: So that is something I know, that is something I don't believe because I know it as a fact.

00:16:48: If you take a look on the global warming, the global temperature rising charts and the

00:16:56: level of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere, these are correlating together.

00:17:01: They are just aligning together.

00:17:03: And some people are asking why we have to talk about emissions because if we talk about

00:17:08: the carbon dioxide itself, it is of course less than 1% from the total mixture.

00:17:14: But the quantity is not the consideration.

00:17:19: It's what it's doing to the environment.

00:17:22: Because as I told, just a small story, I'm from Sri Lanka.

00:17:26: And in Sri Lanka, where my hometown is, we have a lot of man-made lakes because during

00:17:32: the ancient time, your hometown is Anuradapura.

00:17:37: It's the oldest city in Sri Lanka.

00:17:42: So you went from the oldest city in Sri Lanka to the oldest city in Sri Lanka.

00:17:47: Well, the oldest city in Sri Lanka is not quite there.

00:17:52: So it's an agricultural city.

00:17:57: And because of that, the ancient people built a lot of man-made lakes for the agriculture.

00:18:04: It's a rice-dominant agriculture.

00:18:08: And in front of my house, we have a small lake and like 15, 20 years ago, when I was

00:18:15: living there as a child, I have seen and I have touched feel small fish, different kind

00:18:22: of frogs, of course, snakes, mosquitoes.

00:18:26: And we had small rabbits, kind of, I don't know the name of the particular species.

00:18:30: But we had this all kind of biosphere, like a good ecosystem.

00:18:37: But now, after like, I was there one month ago, that is not...

00:18:44: It's gone.

00:18:45: It's gone.

00:18:46: Okay.

00:18:47: It's gone.

00:18:48: When there is the rainy season, small fish comes to our drains, small turtles.

00:18:52: But now nothing.

00:18:53: So we can see what's the... what's happening.

00:18:56: This is not like 50 years ago.

00:18:57: It's like, it's missed my timelines, I'm also still young.

00:19:01: So within that 10, 15 years, there is a huge transition, which is not good, which is not

00:19:08: acceptable.

00:19:11: So we have to think about like how to reverse that or at least to stop it where it is right

00:19:18: now.

00:19:19: So that's where this topic comes.

00:19:20: And I'm just channeling out one major topic because energy is the driven force of a community.

00:19:28: And I have a word, actually, it is not my own word, but I found it online.

00:19:33: It says the fundamental currency of the universe.

00:19:36: Energy is the fundamental currency of the universe.

00:19:39: So we are doing everything because of the energy.

00:19:42: Everything, why we eat, we need to get energy for our body itself.

00:19:47: So mining and mineral processing sector consume a lot.

00:19:52: So therefore, if we can transit, so that is something I know from my studies.

00:20:00: I know that emissions has to do a lot in this sector, so we have to reduce.

00:20:04: So if you ask, if the mining and mineral sector will be green or will be zero emission in the future,

00:20:11: that is something I don't know, but I believe that we can do it.

00:20:16: We can do it if we can reduce emissions, if we can stop emissions wherever we can.

00:20:24: Then of course, there is a hope, there is a belief that we can do 100% zero emission or any sector.

00:20:32: But yes, of course, it's hard, but there are certain things that we can do to a certain threshold, so a certain limit.

00:20:39: So that is the ultimate objective in my topic.

00:20:45: So you and the overall mining industry, you talk about creating the mind of the future.

00:20:53: How is this mind, this mind of the future supposed to look and especially supposed to work like?

00:21:01: It's, though it says the mind of the future, according to my experience and my exposure, that mind can happen today as well.

00:21:11: But it's not happening. That's the question we should answer.

00:21:15: The mind of the future should be automated facility running by renewable energy and energy storage systems like regenerate more electricity.

00:21:25: We convert the excess into green hydrogen so we can store it and of course battery technology.

00:21:32: And our vehicle fleets are driven by electricity, which is powered by the renewables and also the functions.

00:21:40: Most of the, I would say the critical jobs like going underground and these things are automated.

00:21:49: All the materials are recycled. 100% of the yield is taken out and the safety measures are exceptional.

00:21:57: I would say no to low mine engineer injuries and these kinds of safety measures has to be taken.

00:22:05: So the mind of the future should look like that and the water waste and everything has to be recycled.

00:22:13: And of course it is, as I mentioned before, it should not be a site just for extraction of material.

00:22:23: It should be a community. So the people are aligned with the activities.

00:22:28: It's a transparent activity because even if you go to some countries like Africa and Sri Lanka, even there are some minds in the in some communities where the people are against to that

00:22:42: because the people doesn't see any kind of benefit nor economical advantage.

00:22:48: Of course, the mines should have positive financial KPIs, but for the people, how to translate it into the people, why the people should take part of that kind of an activity.

00:22:59: So it is not only an energy part, but when it comes to a mine of the future, a mining site in the future, these all aspects should align together.

00:23:10: Environmental, social, technical and also financial.

00:23:14: So that is how a mine in the future would look like.

00:23:17: But again, that can happen today because of the current best available technologies.

00:23:22: It can be done because if you go to Sri Lanka, there are some ethical practices some people do in the mining.

00:23:29: So they are not trying to destroy the existing environment.

00:23:34: For example, there is a mine for appetite to take phosphate fertilizers and that is in between a man made water canal.

00:23:48: So the mining cannot be done below the depth of the canal.

00:23:52: So they have to stop even the materials are there.

00:23:55: They can't go below the depth of the canal.

00:23:59: So there are some limits to be taken.

00:24:01: So the people are then aligned because otherwise the people are losing water for their agriculture and the normal day to day activities.

00:24:09: So these kind of things should be in place.

00:24:12: So these things like in countries like Sri Lanka, there are some ethical practices, these kind of things and also some environmental friendly.

00:24:22: Most of them are not using mechanical or fossil fuel driven vehicles and these kind of things.

00:24:28: There are a lot of labor involved, which is not a little easy to do.

00:24:33: There's a lot of manpower.

00:24:35: Yeah, but when it comes to some countries like Germany or developed countries where the mining is really advanced and there are certain things like automated facilities, automated machines, remotely operated vehicles.

00:24:47: So there always can be combined to a certain extent to reach the maximum efficiency.

00:24:53: So again, it can be done.

00:24:55: The mine of the future can be done today, but why it is not practiced?

00:25:00: According to my understanding, according to my knowledge, it's always backed by the financial reasons.

00:25:07: Yeah, of course, I'm aligned with that.

00:25:09: I can understand that because to think about the progress innovations and these things, of course, we need to have a financial back.

00:25:18: If the mine is not profitable, then there will be no mining.

00:25:22: That is the number one.

00:25:24: And then, of course, we have to think about the technical efficiency, environmental feasibility and environmental compatibility.

00:25:33: And of course, in general, the sustainability.

00:25:35: So mine of the future can happen today, but it's not happening because of multiple reasons, not only energy, but mostly financial reasons.

00:25:45: So it may be a very obvious question, but still, why didn't the mining industry rely on more, well, let's say, long time plans in the past to make itself more renewable, more efficient?

00:25:59: Because I think in the end, everybody profits from it.

00:26:03: Yes, and that is, it's, I think it's a timely concern at that time because at that time people were looking on, okay, the industrial revolution came.

00:26:13: We need a lot of materials.

00:26:14: We need to, we need a lot of materials for our day to day activities, you know, like now the mobile phones, the copper, the metals in the wind turbines, vehicles, the batteries for the ingredients for batteries in the vehicles.

00:26:35: And these things, it was a huge increment in the material extraction at that time.

00:26:42: So people were not thinking it was not that that because the environmental concern was not that much significant at that time.

00:26:49: So they went just for profit and for the industrial advancement.

00:26:54: But again, for today, if you are talking about the things green today might be outdated tomorrow.

00:27:00: So it's a, it's a very difficult question and it's a difficult line to draw.

00:27:05: What is green now might be not green tomorrow.

00:27:10: So that's at that time, I think the people were looking into the industrial revolution and the progress what they can make.

00:27:18: And at that time it is profitable and no need to worry about the environment so that they didn't think that's, that's a, that's a very unfortunate situation.

00:27:28: And some of the minds that I know personally in Sri Lanka, they have that difficulty right now because they didn't do the things past what they should be doing.

00:27:39: And now they are facing a lot of challenges, not regarding the environment, but also for their processes to run the mine in terms of cost and technical considerations.

00:27:51: They are now in a difficult position because they can't upgrade easily because when you go deep down or even in a large mining site,

00:28:00: when you don't do the things that you should be doing for the infrastructure, let's say for the ventilation system,

00:28:08: if you are going down, you need air to breathe. So how the ventilation has been doing these things are considerations.

00:28:15: So if you are not updating, maintaining or the things that you should be doing at that time, then now it's very hard to change it.

00:28:24: The processors and everything is very difficult to change now.

00:28:28: That's actually the best example why you should act better earlier.

00:28:33: Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Perfect.

00:28:35: So these are some of the unfortunate situations, not particularly for most of the regarding the mineral or mining sector.

00:28:46: But from my job related activities, I'm traveling to a lot of countries to see a lot of manufacturing plants.

00:28:58: And this infrastructure is very sophisticated, but now they are also facing challenges that they want to change.

00:29:10: But when it comes to the practical aspects, it is very difficult for them to change the existing infrastructure.

00:29:19: And some of the companies are looking into new sites to build from the scratch because it seems more feasible technically and economically other than changing what is already existing.

00:29:35: So that is a very challenging situation right now because some people, some companies, they have money.

00:29:41: But to interrupt the current process and to redo the infrastructure to upgrade the infrastructure, it's very challenging.

00:29:52: I'm also interested in some, well, let's say background information about your PhD.

00:29:58: When exactly did you start your whole PhD project?

00:30:02: And as is on a second note, when do you plan on finishing it?

00:30:06: I don't expect the perfect deadline.

00:30:09: The finishing part, I want to do it as soon as possible.

00:30:14: So actually now, before I go to the inception or the starting point, I will give you a brief words about the finishing.

00:30:24: I am now almost done with the writing part and everything is done.

00:30:28: The model is already up and running and we are actually applying it to other industries because this is about emissions, but it can be applied into any other system boundary.

00:30:40: And now I'm in the face of finalizing some administration requirements for the completion of my PhD.

00:30:49: So when I started that, it's a long story because as I told, this is regarding the energy and resource efficiency followed by the greenhouse gas emissions in the mining and mineral processing sector.

00:31:06: So I was looking into a combination of my bachelor's and master's.

00:31:15: So since the time I started my master's, this topic was in my mind how I can integrate sustainability aspects into the mining and mineral processing sector.

00:31:27: It is like getting into a marriage to different people who don't like each other because it's really hard to get.

00:31:36: Not the best conditions.

00:31:38: Exactly.

00:31:39: So when we talk about mining, it's about destroying the environment.

00:31:43: No questions.

00:31:44: I know that as a person from this field, I know when we talk about mining or mineral processing, we are just destroying the existing biosphere.

00:31:53: That is no questions.

00:31:54: We have to accept that.

00:31:55: So from that, how we can make it more sustainable, more environmental.

00:32:00: So that was the challenge.

00:32:02: So this is a combination of my bachelor's and my master's.

00:32:05: So I wanted to apply it in the current industry or current markets.

00:32:12: And I started my PhD.

00:32:14: I mean, when I formulated the topic, that was early 2018, somewhere around 2018.

00:32:22: And then I found the mining academy in Freiburg.

00:32:28: And then I negotiated about the topic with the professor, professor, Dr. Cast and Debenstedt.

00:32:35: He's my main supervisor.

00:32:37: And then we, there was some changes and we wanted to look into different case studies and to select some sites from different countries.

00:32:47: Then we focused only on Sri Lanka because there are a lot of things can be done there.

00:32:51: And then we negotiated and discussed about the arrangement nearly six, eight months.

00:32:59: And then in 2020, I started the PhD topic officially.

00:33:05: And since then, I'm working on the topic.

00:33:12: If you look back at that whole journey, at your data, at your research and so on.

00:33:18: What has been the biggest challenge?

00:33:22: The biggest challenge is to, when it like, again, there are two things.

00:33:30: One part is the mindset of the people.

00:33:35: When I talk about emission, zero emission and like renewable energies into a certain context, the people are not open.

00:33:42: They always think it's not possible.

00:33:44: So convincing companies, convincing people or the management is one of the challenges I had to face.

00:33:52: Because to get exact data, to get realistic data for my model, it was the first point for me to convince them.

00:34:03: Why am I doing this?

00:34:05: What is the benefit they are getting out of it?

00:34:07: So it was a little challenging in the first or getting the people on board and then to get the data.

00:34:14: And the second thing is, yes, that part is done and then to collect the data on site.

00:34:21: And I had to face two several challenges because of the COVID.

00:34:26: I was not able to travel.

00:34:28: And the second thing is in 2022, Sri Lanka faced the financial crisis, economic crisis.

00:34:36: And that time the facilities were shut down because of there was no energy.

00:34:43: And the electricity were cut off for like 12 hours per day and sometimes for the whole day.

00:34:51: Because of that, not only these facilities, but everywhere of the country, the facilities were shut down.

00:35:00: So therefore, there was a challenge in terms of getting data and to see the actual process.

00:35:06: Because I had to take at least three years to five years data to see the transition happening there.

00:35:15: Because some of the companies, they are also doing some progress development, some companies.

00:35:21: So to see what is the significance of these kind of changes, I wanted to see how they are progressing.

00:35:28: But then in 2021, it stopped because of the 2020 actually, it stopped because of the COVID.

00:35:34: And then gradually started because then the actual processes are not the business as usual.

00:35:41: They are running at low capacities.

00:35:43: So this was the challenge in terms of getting into the topic.

00:35:48: But when it comes to the results, then again, it is difficult to convince them why you should do it right now.

00:35:56: Because we just discussed a few minutes ago, what will happen if they are not doing it right now?

00:36:02: What will happen in the next five to ten years or even further?

00:36:06: Do you stop your mind or just do you want to carry it out?

00:36:09: Because mining is something sooner or later, it's not going to stop.

00:36:14: We have to mine. We need the metals in your laptop, the copper, lead or whatever.

00:36:21: And lithium in our electric vehicles, you know, this has to come from somewhere.

00:36:28: What happens with the recycling?

00:36:30: Yes, recycling we need, but to a certain extent, the technology is not that much there.

00:36:35: So when we are talking about emissions, some recycling aspects even emit more emissions than it is coming from the raw materials from the ground.

00:36:44: So there are certain things to be developed, but there are certain things.

00:36:48: Most of the easy things that we can do right now.

00:36:52: Then in the model, the techno economic analysis is giving them a feeling or like an indication.

00:37:01: The project is financially positive.

00:37:04: If you do it right now, you will have a cash flow as well.

00:37:08: In the same time, you are reducing your energy independence and emissions and then you are more competent in the market.

00:37:15: So this is, yes, we are talking about the energy aspects, but not only that, the financial and also the future of the mine.

00:37:26: I think the last part, the cash flow, the stable cash flow, the energy, independency.

00:37:33: That sounds like it could be very interesting, not only for mining, but also for a few other industries.

00:37:40: So the final question may be the most important question.

00:37:45: If people or even industries, if viewers or listeners are interested in your whole work, how can they reach out to you?

00:37:55: How can they contact you?

00:37:56: Of course, I will share my details with you as well.

00:38:00: And of course, I'm working in the environmental campus Birkenfield and the Institute of International Material Flow Management.

00:38:09: So you can reach me from there.

00:38:15: My email address, phone numbers and everything are there.

00:38:18: And also I'm on LinkedIn, Facebook for my name.

00:38:21: So people will find you?

00:38:22: Yes, of course.

00:38:23: And when you type my name, now the same.

00:38:26: Your short name?

00:38:27: Not the long name.

00:38:28: Not the long name.

00:38:29: Now in the environmental campus, then you will directly get my details.

00:38:34: Sounds perfect.

00:38:36: So Navoda, thank you very much for coming on the podcast, for coming on Deep Dive and for presenting your very interesting topic.

00:38:47: I hope we went deep down enough.

00:38:51: And yeah, thanks for your time.

00:38:53: Thanks for your data, your insights.

00:38:55: And also thank you for listening, maybe for watching. And we will hear and see each other in the next episode of Deep Dive.