Deep Dive #7 - How to structure PhDs in other countries

00:00:03: Hello and welcome to another episode of the podcast Deep Dive into Applied Science.

00:00:10: Today we have an episode that's a little bit different.

00:00:14: Because as of right now we are hosting the staff week.

00:00:19: That's a week where we invite guests from other universities that structure PhD programs all over the world.

00:00:29: And today we have one of said guests and he actually jumps between Brazil and Portugal and he will tell us more about how PhDs are structured at his university.

00:00:42: But our guest can introduce himself.

00:00:45: Sure, Martin.

00:00:46: Hello, Martin.

00:00:47: Hello, you guys.

00:00:49: My name is Kyle.

00:00:50: I'm from Brazil.

00:00:52: I work at the Federal University of Santa Catarina.

00:00:56: I work in the postgraduate office, managing the PhD programs, master programs, postdoctoral programs, too.

00:01:04: And I'm also a PhD student.

00:01:07: I'm a field of studies management and economics, and it's more related to institutional economics and energy economics.

00:01:15: stuff a week to get some knowledge about how you guys do your PhD management here and to exchange some best approaches and practice if there are other participants.

00:01:28: Thank you guys.

00:01:29: We are not done yet.

00:01:32: Usually the first question I ask the guests is please introduce your PhD research topic in one sentence.

00:01:41: So you basically you you do both.

00:01:43: you structure PhDs overall at your university, but you're also doing a PhD yourself.

00:01:49: Yeah, so maybe you can give us a little insight into your own projects in if possible.

00:01:55: one sentence

00:01:56: About my research not my work.

00:01:59: How institutional quality affects the adoption of energy transition policies?

00:02:07: This is like the my main research question.

00:02:11: Yeah, I think that's it.

00:02:13: I was thinking about words, man.

00:02:15: Don't worry.

00:02:16: When did you start your PhD?

00:02:18: It was not so long ago.

00:02:19: It was in two thousand twenty four.

00:02:22: I'm like, I mean, the second year right now, not even half, maybe yet, but yeah, was in March in two thousand

00:02:32: twenty four.

00:02:32: And when did you start your work?

00:02:34: at the university itself?

00:02:35: Yeah, this one was in two

00:02:39: thousand seventeen.

00:02:39: So way earlier.

00:02:40: Yeah, I'm working there for like eight years, almost eight years.

00:02:44: But before that, I was a student.

00:02:48: I did my bachelor's in the same institution, then my master's.

00:02:53: Then I got this job position and now I'm doing PhD.

00:02:58: Okay.

00:02:58: But I started my bachelor's there in two thousand eleven.

00:03:02: So let's see that I'm like fourteen years in the same institution.

00:03:08: So first bachelor's, master's, then work.

00:03:10: I did

00:03:11: work.

00:03:12: I stopped it.

00:03:13: I didn't follow the script because when people went to pursue an academic career, they do all together, bachelor's, master's, and PhDs.

00:03:25: But I got this.

00:03:29: Scripts

00:03:29: can be changed at any time.

00:03:31: So you are not only in Brazil.

00:03:34: You're also in Portugal.

00:03:36: How does it come that you basically switch?

00:03:39: Because actually in Brazil we have this program, this mobility program that is funded by the federal agents that supports all the PhD programs in all universities across the country.

00:03:53: So we had this opportunity to spend like six months or a year in an international university.

00:04:00: So this is why I'm going to University of Coimbra in Portugal.

00:04:05: What is it

00:04:05: called?

00:04:06: Coimbra.

00:04:07: Coimbra.

00:04:08: It is one of the oldest universities in the world.

00:04:13: It's from the twelfth century.

00:04:15: Oh, well, fitting to Tria, since Tria is the old

00:04:19: system.

00:04:19: It's University of Coimbra and University of Bologna in Italy are the oldest European universities.

00:04:26: So this is why I'm going there too.

00:04:28: But it's more related to my PhD work than my... my work itself in the university is more related to energy economics and that's kind of the kind of stuff.

00:04:39: And I almost thought that you choose Portugal because of the language?

00:04:45: Not really.

00:04:46: It was more because we had this research contact with like a network with the University of Coimbra.

00:04:55: We already knew the researchers there.

00:04:57: So it was more because of this.

00:05:01: It was like my PhD advisor.

00:05:04: He knew this professor in Portugal.

00:05:07: We studied the same topics, same subjects.

00:05:10: And this is why I'm going there.

00:05:13: So let's go back for a moment to your country.

00:05:17: How does a PhD look like in Brazil?

00:05:20: How do you structure it?

00:05:23: Most of our PhDs have basically the same structure all across the country.

00:05:30: because there is a federal agency that is the one that is responsible to approve PhD programs there.

00:05:39: It's a government agency.

00:05:41: So every PhD program from every institution, no matter if it's public or if it's a private university, they have to do the same steps to be able to offer PhD programs in Brazil.

00:05:55: So our PhD is four years.

00:05:59: the regular time.

00:06:01: The majority of them we have to do, I believe in all of them, we have to do classes like disciplines, credits, and also we do our PhD thesis.

00:06:13: We have to publish articles and...

00:06:16: How many exactly?

00:06:18: Depends

00:06:18: on the program.

00:06:20: Each program has their own, let's say, criteria.

00:06:26: In my course, it's two.

00:06:29: I have to publish two articles, two papers during these four years.

00:06:34: But there are courses that are more, there are less.

00:06:38: So it depends.

00:06:40: You mentioned that a PhD lasts or needs four years.

00:06:45: Yeah.

00:06:47: And what if you need more?

00:06:48: If you need more, you can have more time.

00:06:52: But we call, I don't know how to translate this, like a prorogation time we call.

00:06:59: Like the program can give you one more year or two more years.

00:07:04: But this is like an exception.

00:07:06: The regular time is four years and that's it.

00:07:09: You can finish earlier.

00:07:12: If you want to finish in three years, you can do it.

00:07:15: But it's very hard to finish a page in three years.

00:07:17: I can

00:07:18: imagine.

00:07:20: Do you also give lectures during?

00:07:23: Yeah,

00:07:24: we actually last semester in the beginning of the year.

00:07:28: I was helping my PhD advisor to teach a class about corporate finance.

00:07:36: I was like an assistant professor during a whole semester.

00:07:42: where we were teaching corporate finance to the undergraduate courses, the management courses.

00:07:50: So

00:07:51: you do research, you write papers, you do your thesis, you also give lectures, and at the same time you still structure the PhDs of others at the

00:08:01: university.

00:08:03: This sounds Like a lot.

00:08:07: So what's with the overall workload?

00:08:09: is it too much?

00:08:10: We used to do that.

00:08:11: I know that your structure here is a little bit different, but like many of the people that work in stuff in the administrative stuff in my university, they also study in the university, they do like PhD courses and some of them master courses.

00:08:32: So we try to combine work and study in the same place, you know.

00:08:36: It's pretty

00:08:36: common.

00:08:37: It sounds a bit like a challenge.

00:08:38: Yeah, but still, if it works,

00:08:41: but we are used to.

00:08:43: So

00:08:44: what about Portugal?

00:08:45: How does it differ from this model?

00:08:49: The structure itself.

00:08:52: I'm not that expert about their structure, but I know there is a little bit different.

00:08:59: Of course, they are smaller than Brazil.

00:09:02: They are like ten million people.

00:09:04: In Brazil, you are like more than two hundred million.

00:09:06: So our systems are really... I believe the system that they have in Portugal is more similar than what you guys have here in Germany than what we have in Brazil because they have like the... They say they are their top universities, the oldest ones that they have this status.

00:09:27: It's like University of Coimbra, University of Porto, University of Lisbon, University of Aveiro.

00:09:34: That is the biggest university that they have in Portugal.

00:09:40: But I know that in Portugal we also need to do classes.

00:09:46: So in this... It's kind of similar in this way, because here in Germany, you guys don't need to do many classes in PhD, right?

00:09:56: Not really.

00:09:57: It also depends, but most of the time not.

00:10:01: We in Brazil and also in Portugal, we have to do at least one year of classes, maybe two years of classes.

00:10:07: That's quite a lot.

00:10:07: So fulfill all the credits, because you have to fulfill all the credits, and there's a lot of credits.

00:10:13: So... And writing the PhD thesis at the same time.

00:10:21: So when you started your PhD last year, you're, well, let's say in the first quarter of the PhD, if you look back at the time, so far, what has been the biggest challenge?

00:10:37: The beginning of my PhD is

00:10:41: to fulfill

00:10:41: the classes, the credits.

00:10:44: Yeah, like last year I did a lot of classes.

00:10:48: I did like, we call disciplines.

00:10:51: I did, I think, eight disciplines.

00:10:55: It was classes like three days a week, two days a week, for a full morning, full afternoon.

00:11:04: Well, I did not write that much in this first year.

00:11:08: Nobody does because of the credits that you had to do.

00:11:12: Maybe the people that finish early do.

00:11:14: But I don't know many people that finish.

00:11:18: It's that hard to finish.

00:11:20: It's easier to find people that needs more than four years than the people that do this in like three years.

00:11:27: Well, sounds like a very strict schedule, especially

00:11:30: if you have a course.

00:11:34: I can say that this is really normative, like our structure.

00:11:38: We have everything right down, regulations and everything.

00:11:41: I don't know how you guys do here.

00:11:43: Well, since you know both sides, so like it is being a PhD student yourself and also, you know, about the structures.

00:11:51: What recommendations can you give to people that maybe think about doing a PhD outside of Germany, maybe even in Portugal or Brazil?

00:12:00: If they want to do their PhD in Brazil, you have to plan your schedule, your time very well to be able to fulfill all these credits as early as possible.

00:12:11: Because I know people that had to do classes even in the third year of their PhD, so they can get a little bit desperate because they are writing their PhD thesis and there's the deadline is coming and you have to do disciplines at the same time.

00:12:30: So if you want to do PhD in Brazil, and I think in Portugal too, you have to plan mostly the first year very well to be able to have like free time to attend to classes.

00:12:44: And if you are working at the same time, it's quite difficult.

00:12:49: It's possible, many people do.

00:12:52: But yeah, that's my first advice.

00:12:56: I'm not quite sure how it is in Brazil and Portugal, but here in Germany, we also have a lot of corporations with companies.

00:13:03: And a lot of people or a lot of PhD students, they actually do their PhD while working in a company.

00:13:11: And the company also does some of the financing.

00:13:14: Is there something like that in your country?

00:13:16: We

00:13:16: have something like that, but it's very, let's say, it's only in some courses.

00:13:23: Like in the engineering courses, they have these partnerships with companies, like huge companies, but it's mostly in the engineering and chemistry and mechanical engineering.

00:13:37: Like in my subject, like business and economics, at least in my university, we don't have that much partnership with other companies.

00:13:47: But yeah, in the engineering sector, they have a lot.

00:13:50: Sounds fitting.

00:13:52: Yeah, yeah,

00:13:53: yeah.

00:13:54: Well,

00:13:54: because they are development and they're like PhD thesis is about something, some product that can be good for the company and good for the university.

00:14:04: They are like developing, they're developing something that that's going to be useful for the company.

00:14:11: Well, here at Trio University of the Platte Science, as we have Yeah, food technology and food technology also has a lot of corporations with, well, Bitburger, one of the biggest beer factories.

00:14:24: So they have a lot of synergies.

00:14:27: So yeah, I'm not quite sure how this structure applies to other PhD programs.

00:14:33: You also talk to people that do their PhD as of right now.

00:14:40: So if you talk to them, what do they say?

00:14:43: What are their biggest challenges?

00:14:46: Good question.

00:14:46: I believe the deadlines are really...

00:14:49: Are they so strict?

00:14:50: Restricted, because you don't have much time to... In the Masters, it's even worse, because in Masters it's two years, so you have to do everything at the same time.

00:15:03: You don't have the option, now I'm going to attend classes, now I'm going to write papers to journals and my dissertation.

00:15:13: But I think the deadlines are very restricted.

00:15:16: So this is the biggest challenge.

00:15:21: Yeah, I think so.

00:15:22: Do you also have problems with funding of PhD projects?

00:15:26: Yeah, because we depend a lot of Brazilian... Because the biggest funding in Brazil is the Brazilian government, the agents.

00:15:38: There's like a research agents.

00:15:40: that funds all the PhD programs in Brazil.

00:15:45: Even in the private universities, they give funding, they give scholarships.

00:15:52: So we depend a lot about these fundings from the Brazilian agents.

00:15:57: We also have something that is growing a lot in the past few years.

00:16:02: That is the state agents.

00:16:03: We also have the states helping a little bit, funding the researchers and the PhD students.

00:16:10: But like we depend major about like these two funding agencies.

00:16:17: There's private funding too, but it's like pretty small percentage.

00:16:23: So this we are struggling with that because we don't have that many options as you guys have here too.

00:16:30: Well, I'm going

00:16:32: to be fair sometimes we also have some problems or let's say challenges with funding.

00:16:37: Yeah.

00:16:38: But yeah, it's very interesting to hear or to see insights from other countries how they structure their PhDs.

00:16:46: And maybe some people are interested in doing their PhD.

00:16:51: Yeah, in Brazil or Portugal or some other countries.

00:16:53: Sure.

00:16:54: If people are interested in you and also your university, how can they contact you?

00:17:00: We have ninety five programs.

00:17:04: So our catalog of courses are really big.

00:17:11: We have biology, medical, health courses, engineering, as I said, literature, linguistics, business, economics.

00:17:23: And the programs, each program have their own, let's say, process to select PhD students.

00:17:35: So you have to be checking their website because they publish is a public process.

00:17:43: So we have a calendar deadline to apply to send the project.

00:17:50: And each program has their own calendar.

00:17:53: So you have to, okay, I'm interested in studying, I don't know, PhD in nursing in Brazil.

00:18:01: So I'm going to check.

00:18:03: the PhD website in nursing in Federal University of Santa Catalina and there's, sorry, there's, you're gonna see all the calendar and all the structure.

00:18:16: So it is all free.

00:18:17: You don't have to pay tuition fees.

00:18:18: You don't have to pay any...

00:18:21: That's a huge benefit.

00:18:22: Yeah.

00:18:24: Well, it's not like that in every country.

00:18:27: And

00:18:27: we need international students because... Our percentage of international students are related to the total.

00:18:36: It's quite small.

00:18:38: We need to increase that to grow in the rankings.

00:18:41: So you guys can apply to office.

00:18:46: So the listeners and viewers know what to do.

00:18:49: And well, I hope they will do it.

00:18:52: Thank you very much for all the insights and for all the information.

00:18:56: And I hope you had a good time listening and watching.

00:19:01: and we will continue with our staff week and we will get impressions from a lot of different countries and we will see and hear each other in the next episode of Deep Dive into Applied Science.

00:19:14: Thank you Martin, thanks guys, see ya.